Nikki: Hi. I’m Nikki (ph) and I live in Fort Riley, Kansas. I’m on my way to pick up my DD214 to commemorate my honorable discharge from the U.S. Army. This podcast was recorded at:
Sarah McCammon, host:
Monday, December 16, 2024, 1:37 PM ET.
Nikki: Things may have changed by the time you hear this, but I’ll already be embarking on a new chapter in civilian life. Now, here’s the show.
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FRANCO ORDOÑEZ, BYLINE: Good luck, Nikki.
Mara Liesson, signed: Oh, congratulations.
McCammon: Fort Riley, Kansas – not far from where I grew up. hey there. This is an NPR POLITICS podcast. I’m Sarah McCammon. I cover politics.
Ordóñez: My name is Franco Ordóñez. I’m covering the White House.
LIASSON: I’m Mara Liasson, senior national political correspondent.
McCammon: Early today, President-elect Donald Trump held a press conference at his Mar-a-Lago mansion in South Florida. This is his first press conference since winning the 2024 presidential election. Today I would like to talk about some important points. Franco, let’s start with immigration. What did President Trump say about what he was planning there? Did you get any further insight?
Ordoez: Yeah. So he essentially doubled down on his threat to start a trade war against Mexico and Canada over his claims about the number of migrants arriving from the southern and northern borders. I mean, he’s said it before, and he said it again, that if we don’t do a good job of dealing with migrants coming across our borders, we’re going to impose huge tariffs on our two neighbors. As you know, he also continues to claim that the United States provides hundreds of billions of dollars in subsidies to both countries. And one more thing about immigration: He actually threatened to sue the Biden administration, alleging that it was selling off parts of the border wall.
McCammon: So we actually see two of the signature problems of the Trump presidency intersecting here. – Immigration and Customs. Mara, almost every foreign policy solution favored by President Trump seems to be tariffs.
LIASSON: Well, it’s more than foreign policy. President Trump seems to be saying that tariffs are the answer to all of America’s problems, both foreign and domestic. He said tariff is the most beautiful word in the English language. He said he would pay down the debt with tariffs and tax cuts. It’s economically very difficult to understand how that works. But at least what President Trump is trying to do is keep the tariff threat alive. In his first term, he threatened to impose tariffs, but most of his threats were never implemented, as Mexico and Canada said they had agreed to renegotiate NAFTA. And let’s see if that’s what he wants to do this time. Or does he actually want to impose huge tariffs and start a trade war?
McCammon: You know, we talk a lot about tariffs as an economic policy tool, and we talk a lot about the risk of inflation from things like tariffs. But what about as a foreign policy tool? I mean, if the goal here is to deal with illegal immigration, how effective is that?
ORDOÑEZ: So I think for Trump, using tariffs is a negotiating tactic to get other things that he wants. Every time I actually talk to ambassadors and diplomats, they always seem disappointed or frustrated that President Trump is juggling so many things. He uses tariffs and economic issues to address national security issues. They want to keep everything in a certain lane. But for Trump, he says, this is the way to serve America’s interests. In other words, he claims to have used tariffs to stop the war. He often refers to the Remain in Mexico program, which requires immigrants and immigrants from other countries to remain in Mexico while their cases are heard. He said that only happened because he threatened tariffs against Mexico.
LIASSON: Well, this is Trump’s big contradiction. If we believe, as he often says, that tariffs are the economic solution to everything that ails America, including the budget deficit, then we must go ahead with them and impose the highest possible tariffs on all imports. . But if you think this is just a threat to get other countries to do certain things, like stop fentanyl from crossing the border or stop illegal immigrants from crossing the border, then it’s just a negotiation tool. And I don’t know which one it is.
McCammon: Okay. Another thing President Trump said today was that he once again defended Pete Hegseth, the thorny candidate to lead the Pentagon. Franco, let me remind you again, why is Hegseth’s nomination attracting so much attention?
Ordoez: Yeah. Hegseth is a former Army major and a Fox News host. And he’s just faced an avalanche of negative headlines over allegations of sexual assault and alcohol abuse — so much so that just a few weeks ago it seemed like his nomination was in real jeopardy. is. They were discussing who would replace him – potentially including names like Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis. But in recent weeks, Mr. Trump and his grassroots allies have rallied around Mr. Hegseth and backed him into the race. So Hegseth was President Trump’s guest at this weekend’s Army-Navy football game. Hegseth was also included in many of President Trump’s photos. Therefore, he aims to be in a more powerful position.
McCammon: Yeah, I mean, he came up to bat for Hegseth on NBC’s “Meet the Press” just a week ago. And, just to be clear, Hegseth denies these allegations. Does this seem to work? Despite all the controversy, does this make Trump the nominee?
Liasson: That seems very possible. What’s so interesting about Trump’s approach to these candidates is that he started saying, “U.S. Senate, take it or leave it.” If you don’t have the votes to approve these guys, I’m going to push them through as an adjournment schedule. And that would have created a kind of constitutional crisis that would have put him at war with the Republican-controlled Senate. But now he’s doing something different. He says, My movements are very powerful. If I can use this movement to threaten incumbent Republican senators with my primary opponents if they don’t vote for my candidate, I will be able to get them through that way. So he’s flexing his muscles, and so far it seems to be working.
Ordoez: It might make him a candidate, but it might just get his candidacy to confirmation hearings. So even Republican senators are warning that if this confirmation hearing takes place, it could get very ugly. Speaking about the sexual assault allegations, testimony is expected to take place. It can be a difficult verification process. So, yes, I think there’s a good chance he’ll go to a hearing if this momentum continues. But I feel like once those start, it could be a different ballgame.
McCammon: Well, it’s time for a little break. Let me explain in a little more detail.
And I’m back. So we’ve been talking a lot about Trump’s trade policy, foreign policy, at least one of his Cabinet nominees. Is there anything else that Trump had to say today that particularly struck a chord with both of you?
LIASSON: Well, the vaccine really surprised me. Asked about vaccines and autism, he said he was either very open to or actually agreed with Robert F. Kennedy, who said there was a link between vaccines and autism. It seemed to suggest.
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DONALD TRUMP: If you look at autism, 30 years ago we were hearing numbers of 1 in 200,000, 1 in 100,000, now it’s 1 in 100. I’m listening. Something is wrong. There’s a problem, so I’ll look into it.
McCammon: And I just have to say that the scientific consensus among most experts is that vaccines do not cause autism.
Ordoez: Yeah. I would like to repeat the same thing about vaccines. I think this is going to be really talked about a lot over the next few weeks. I would like to add that he also said he was prepared to pardon Democratic New York City Mayor Eric Adams, who was indicted on corruption charges this fall.
McCammon: I want to talk a little bit about the optics here, I mean, it’s almost as if there are two competing White Houses during this transition period. Of course, there’s one in Washington, D.C., where Joe Biden is still president, but there’s also a growing number of them in Florida. As you know, Mr. Trump is stepping into a leadership role and meeting with foreign leaders. He has just traveled to France for the rededication of Notre Dame Cathedral. How much information can we glean from Trump’s current words and actions about how he will begin governing in just over a month?
LIASSON: Well, you can glean a lot of what he wants to do. He tells us that almost every day, whether it’s in press conferences or in social media posts. But what I really take issue with this is that it’s kind of an abnormal system here in the United States. Where this comes from, there is an incredibly long gap between the two administrations. In England, I think the next day, someone moves into No. 10 Downing Street. There was an incredibly long and archaic era, so it used to take a long time to get on a horse-drawn carriage and come to Washington…
McCammon: (Laughs) Yeah.
Ordoez: (Laughter).
LIASSON: …We’re faced with this strange situation that happens with most transitions of power, especially from a president of one party to a president of another party, and virtually all at once. There will almost always be two presidents.
ORDOÑEZ: And I think it’s very remarkable that Biden hasn’t had a press conference yet and Trump held this press conference and spoke to reporters for almost an hour and 15 minutes, but this is very is attracting attention. He has given no indication that he will do so.
McCammon: Obviously, Trump loves this. He never accepted the 2020 election results. He has always wanted to be president and seems to be jumping at the chance to step back into the spotlight like this. Lastly, I would like to ask both of you about a statement that I heard from Trump today.
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TRUMP: The first semester, everyone was fighting me. This season, everyone wants to be my friend. I don’t know. Maybe his personality has changed or something.
McCammon: There’s a greater sense of reconciliation and cooperation from business leaders, of course Silicon Valley, other politicians, world leaders than there was after Trump’s victory in 2016. It seems like there are. What do you think about that?
LIASSON: Well, first of all, one of the things that I think about this is that there’s a lot of enthusiasm among business leaders, as well as an incoming Republican president who promises to cut taxes and cut regulations. But there is also a completely different approach to Donald Trump. Similar resistance will not occur. I think world leaders and business leaders feel that he can lobby. Look at how he changed his position on the virtual currency TikTok. Donald Trump is launching his own cryptocurrency company. Suddenly, he became very positive towards cryptocurrencies. He used to be very negative.
So I think there is another approach. He is seen as more legitimate because he won the popular vote. But I also think world leaders and business leaders and other politicians think there are other ways to deal with him than just outright resistance. They’re going to try to work with him. That doesn’t mean they like his policies or approach any more, they just wonder if they can deal with him differently.
McCammon: Okay, I’ll leave that aside. I’m Sarah McCammon. I cover politics.
Ordóñez: My name is Franco Ordóñez. I’m covering the White House.
LIASSON: I’m Mara Liasson, senior national political correspondent.
McCammon: Thanks for listening to NPR POLITICS PODCAST.
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