UNIDENTIFIED CHILDREN: This podcast was recorded at…
ASMA KHALID, HOST:
(Laughter) 1:50 p.m. Eastern time on Thursday, October 10 of 2024.
STEPHEN FOWLER, BYLINE: Things may have changed by the time you hear this.
UNIDENTIFIED CHILDREN: OK, here’s the show.
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KHALID: I feel like that timestamp was meant for you, Sue. I love this, though. It was adorable (laughter).
FOWLER: I would also listen to Sue talk about journalism.
KHALID: Hey, there. It’s the NPR POLITICS PODCAST. I’m Asma Khalid. I cover the White House.
FOWLER: I’m Stephen Fowler. I cover the campaign.
TAMARA KEITH, BYLINE: And I’m Tamara Keith. I also cover the White House.
KHALID: And today on the show, the role of politics around disaster and recovery. Hurricane Helene and Hurricane Milton have battered the South in recent days. More than 200 people died from the impact of Helene, and we don’t yet know the full impact of Milton. But millions of folks are without power in Florida, and the impact of these storms will continue to be felt for months to come.
Meanwhile, misinformation, disinformation about the storms and recovery efforts have turned what is perhaps usually a somewhat bipartisan effort into a political fight, and that is where we begin our conversation today. President Biden spoke about the slew of false claims last night at the White House.
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PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Over the last few weeks, there’s been reckless and irresponsible and relentless promotion of disinformation and outright lies about what’s going on. It’s undermining confidence in the people in Florida and the incredible rescue and recovery work that has been undertaken. Literally, there are thousands of fellow Americans who are putting their lives at stake and putting it on the line to do the dangerous work that needs to be done now. And it’s harmful to those who most need the help.
KHALID: You know, as President Biden went on, he sounded really angry and frustrated, and he specifically called out former President Donald Trump for – in his words – leading this onslaught of lies.
Stephen, you have been reporting on recovery efforts and the political response. So I want to ask you, you know, Biden sounded angry and frustrated. What exactly was he referring to? What are these specific false claims?
FOWLER: So in the aftermath of the storm and really even before Helene hit at the end of September, there were a lot of things floating around. There’s the typical stuff about how there’s a government conspiracy and they’re not helping people recover. But this time, things took on a really, really specific flavor. There was accusations that the Federal Emergency Management Agency, FEMA, didn’t have any money for hurricane response because they gave it all to people who entered the country illegally. That’s not true. There was allegations that the Biden administration was slow-walking recovery efforts because it only hit red areas. That’s not true. Hurricanes don’t care who you vote for or where you live.
So there’s just all of these claims that have been made in the aftermath of a disaster. But this time, because we are a month out from the election and because Donald Trump is not the one in power, he’s using the storm and the storm response as this cudgel to attack Vice President Kamala Harris and Joe Biden and advance his rhetoric about immigration. And so you have this, I mean, for lack of a better term, perfect storm of claims swirling around and being amplified on social media, on right-wing media and by Trump himself at rallies and speeches.
KHALID: So, you know, to state the obvious, and Stephen, you alluded to this earlier, we are less than a month from Election Day. Early voting is already underway in some states. And, you know, natural disasters can often be seen as a test of political leadership. Add to that the fact that a couple of key swing states have been particularly hard hit – North Carolina and Georgia. So I want to break this down in terms of how the candidates themselves are responding.
And Tam, let’s start with Kamala Harris. She is the sitting vice president, so maybe the administration’s response affects her more personally. What are you seeing? What are you hearing from her? Where has she been going?
KEITH: So she made visits to both Georgia and North Carolina, meeting with first responders, getting briefings. She has been in all of these storm briefings. She has delivered remarks. She’s been calling various states. She’s had a little bit of a back-and-forth with Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, who says that he doesn’t need to talk to her because she’s not in the chain of command. But she is doing everything that she can to publicly display that she is involved in this and that she is working for the American people. She even called in to The Weather Channel and CNN yesterday to warn people about Hurricane Milton after getting a briefing from FEMA. So that’s what she’s been doing.
Her campaign in North Carolina is also working to make sure that people can vote. And they have a hotline up, with people involved in voter protection who can help voters figure out how to vote if their polling place has moved or washed away or, you know, if they are now staying with relatives in another part of the state. So they realize that this is a very big thing, and they are approaching it both from a voter mobilization and making sure that their voters can vote side of things but also from a messaging side. You know, a disaster is an opportunity to show leadership, and certainly Harris doesn’t want to miss that opportunity, though she also then has to balance that with campaigning. Like, she’s on a Western swing right now, while also trying to do what she can to be helpful, or to look helpful, with regards to this disaster response.
KHALID: I suppose it’s not just about showing your own leadership, but the contrast with your opponent. And I was struck by the fact that the Harris campaign is now launching these ads that critique how their opponent, former President Donald Trump, has responded to natural disasters. And so, Stephen, tell us how Trump is navigating the response to these natural disasters.
FOWLER: Well, first, I want to go back to how Trump handled some major disasters when he was president because, you know, there is plenty to criticize with the government’s response to these storms, but what Trump was known for in his time was also his personal messaging about his response to the storms. I mean, there was the viral image of Trump throwing paper towel rolls into a crowd of people in Puerto Rico after Hurricane Maria hit there in 2017. And there was the Sharpiegate, where he drew on an extra line, saying that a storm was going to go towards Alabama when that wasn’t what the Hurricane Center projected. And so there’s the message and the messenger. And what we’re seeing now from Trump is that he, as the messenger, is just criticizing everything that is being done from a purely political lens, because he thinks it is an advantage with less than four weeks to go into the election.
It is still too early to fully know the extent of Helene – and now Milton – and fully know if FEMA handled themselves appropriately and if there’s criticisms of the timing and reaction to things. But Trump is using this as a wedge to try to put himself over Kamala Harris and is doing so in a way that is purely from the campaign political perspective and maybe not necessarily grounded in what the government is actually doing in response.
KHALID: Let’s take a quick break, and we’ll be back in a moment.
And we’re back. And, you know, politicizing storm responses is not necessarily something new in our political system. I mean, Tam, I am reminded of the backlash that the former Republican governor of New Jersey, Chris Christie, faced from some fellow Republicans for how he welcomed then-President Obama after Superstorm Sandy. Does this specific kind of reaction we are seeing now seem new to you?
KEITH: Just to explain Superstorm Sandy – it was the October surprise in the 2012 presidential election. It is a storm that came in and just absolutely devastated New York and New Jersey. And then-President Obama went to New Jersey and met with Chris Christie and showed leadership on this storm and the storm response right at this moment when voters were making a decision. And I’ve spoken to a top official from the Romney campaign who told me that Obama’s response to Superstorm Sandy – that moment is part of why Mitt Romney lost that election and why President Obama was able to be reelected.
But this is a bit different. You know, you didn’t have Mitt Romney back then saying, well, actually, the response is terrible, and the government controlled the weather and sent it to New Jersey. Mitt Romney, I think, even put his campaign on hold for a day. There is a long-standing tradition of disasters are a bipartisan opportunity for everyone to be human, to see people for their humanity, to help their neighbors. You know, there’s this multipronged response that’s the federal government, the local government, the state government. What’s happening here is former President Trump is literally trying to turn this hurricane, Hurricane Helene, into Hurricane Katrina. Hurricane Katrina was a terrible storm. Levees broke in New Orleans. People died. Neighborhoods…
KHALID: Yeah, more than a thousand people died.
KEITH: …Were wiped out.
KHALID: Yeah.
KEITH: It was absolutely terrible. There were these awful images of people in the Superdome in New Orleans not having the supplies that they needed. And then-President George W. Bush was criticized for his personal response to the storm – first flying over it in Air Force One and peering down, and then later praising his FEMA director, Michael Brown, for doing a heck of a job while people were still struggling in a very severe way.
KHALID: You know, it is striking though, still, to hear you say, Tam, that in the October before an election year, you had a Republican governor meeting with a Democratic president. Because I traveled the other week with President Biden to Florida and Georgia as he surveyed the damage from Hurricane Helene, and he was not met by the Republican governor of Georgia in person, nor was he met with the Republican governor of Florida in person. Neither one was going to show up there in person. They have spoken to him on the phone, but it strikes me that, you know, take aside even the misinformation, disinformation – obviously very important – there’s this current moment in our politics where it is risky for folks to even show they’re bipartisan publicly in this moment. And that feels different and new to me.
KEITH: It does. There was a time where you wanted to be seen standing next to the president, no matter what the party of the president, because that was signaling that government was united to help your citizens.
KHALID: I guess I want to ask then, on a closing thought, a question to both of you. And Stephen, I’ll start with you. If you see a world where disaster response is bipartisan again – and I’m particularly curious for your thoughts because you’re there, based in Georgia. That’s your home state. Do you see a world where at least we can agree on some basic facts about natural disasters?
FOWLER: Well, you know, I will say that something that stands in sharp contrast to how Trump has handled these storms and how he’s kind of used it as a political weapon is on the ground in these states, you kind of see that bipartisan future, but it’s more of a quiet bipartisan future. You know, Brian Kemp in Georgia, Henry McMaster in South Carolina, Roy Cooper in North Carolina – you know, two of them are Republican and one of them are Democrat. All of them have been focused on the task at hand, and that is making sure their constituents and their state gets what they need. And they’re not out there badmouthing Joe Biden. They’re not out there, you know, singing the praises of FEMA and Joe Biden and how everything is great because of Democrats. But what they’re doing is they’re getting the job done. And there are countless examples over the past few weeks of these local officials saying, yes, we got exactly what we need, or pushing back against the misinformation and, like, trying to stem the tide of these outside voices, like, agitating the situation and really focusing on what’s at hand.
You know, Brian Kemp was in a storm-ravaged part of the state while Joe Biden was in another part of the state. You know, they’re both doing what they need to do to help get the word out that things are going to be better and help is coming. There’s not the negative headlines or the political headlines that come with having a Republican and a Democrat share the same space at the same time. So I do think we will see that again in the future, but it might be more of a quiet, bipartisan sheen over everything.
KEITH: Well, and Stephen, correct me if I’m wrong, but the first time Trump went to Georgia immediately following the storm, Brian Kemp didn’t appear with him. It was only the second time he went that Kemp was there with him. Sometimes there really are just scheduling conflicts, or the governor needs to be doing their job. And I will say that when President Biden landed in South Carolina, as he was heading to survey storm damage in South and North Carolina, Republican Senator Lindsey Graham – very close ally of Donald Trump – was there on the tarmac to greet Joe Biden, his, you know, former Senate colleague. I’m not saying that everything is peace love and happiness, ’cause it definitely isn’t, but I am saying that, you know, beyond the bluster and beyond the rhetoric and the misinformation, you also have a lot of people that are just trying to help their constituents.
KHALID: All right, well, that is a wrap for today’s show. We will be back in your feeds tomorrow with the weekly roundup. I’m Asma Khalid. I cover the White House.
FOWLER: I’m Stephen Fowler. I cover the campaign.
KEITH: And I’m Tamara Keith. I also cover the White House.
KHALID: And thank you all, as always, for listening to the NPR POLITICS PODCAST.
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